By the way, I found one: a mod for rFactor called V8 Buggies. This mod demonstrates two things:
(1) rFactor's physics are excellent. I prefer the feel of LFS on the track, but if a mod like this was made for LFS there would be lots of bizarre issues like being launched into the sky spinning like a torpedo (happens in autocross tracks all the time).
(2) Supporting user mods freakin' kicks ass. The buggies mod is not very polished -- it's just about having fun -- but there are rFactor mods that are every bit as polished as the first-party content.
Hopefully LFS supports modding sometime soon (like, before the end of the decade ^_^ ).
(1) rFactor's physics are excellent. I prefer the feel of LFS on the track, but if a mod like this was made for LFS there would be lots of bizarre issues like being launched into the sky spinning like a torpedo (happens in autocross tracks all the time).
(2) Supporting user mods freakin' kicks ass. The buggies mod is not very polished -- it's just about having fun -- but there are rFactor mods that are every bit as polished as the first-party content.
Hopefully LFS supports modding sometime soon (like, before the end of the decade ^_^ ).
My G25 is hooked up to a normal computer desk. I imagine most G25 users will setup theirs the same. The shifter is within easy reach, just to the right of the wheel.
I'm 6'2" guitarist/pianist with long fingers. I find reaching over the shifter knob to get to the buttons is awkward. With the shifter ball in the palm of my hand, my fingers are fully extended to reach the buttons (especially the red buttons). Using the d-pad with the tips of fully extended fingers is funky. I can reach the buttons by coming in from the sides, to avoid the shifter, but that's awkward, too. Coming in from the left, you have to be careful not to bump the shifter with your knuckles; from the right, you are facing your palm out and turning your thumb down, which is awkward, too.
If you find the buttons to be conveniently placed, consider yourself lucky. Judging from the user impressions I've read, I'd say you're a minority.
Personally, I don't care at all. I love the wheel, I love the whole package, and the button placement doesn't bother me, but I think it's kinda wierd that you're telling someone who doesn't like the layout that he's straight-up wrong, as if there's something wrong with him if he doesn't share your opinion, when you can just look at the thing and see the problem.
I don't consider it a design flaw, I consider it a design compromise.
More buttons = more wires = larger wheel spokes and central hub to accommodate them, right? I could be totally full of shit here, I'm just guessing. However, I tend to guess with the underlying assumption that the engineers at Logitech are smart guys who have put a hell of a lot more thought into this wheel than any of us have.
I totally agree. This wheel has turned LFS into a whole new game for me. Although I don't think it's too expensive. I'm amazed at what they managed to bring to market for a mere 300 bones.
I have very long fingers and I find reaching the buttons to be quite a stretch if you are reaching over the shifter. You almost end up hitting the red buttons with your finger nails. If you come at the buttons from the side then there is no stretching involved, but now you are banging your knuckles on the shifter. Simply put, the buttons are awkwardly placed, but I'm not sure what else they could have done.
It's all about design compromise. I think they took the buttons off the wheel to reduce rotational inertia. They shrunk down the central hub considerably and took tons of material out of it, and made the wheel grip thinner. This let them bump the wheel diameter up while still having a wheel light enough to respond very quickly to the force feedback motors. However they did it, the resulting wheel feels great. It's super fast and responsive, with very little FF lag.
As an overall package, G25 kicks major ass. I loved my DFP, but to anybody buying a wheel today (especially if they play Live for Speed): save up the extra scratch for the G25. The DFP is tolerable if you never go beyond 270 degrees from lock to lock, but if you want to go beyond that, you really want a G25.
Doesn't bother me. Probably a sticking point some folks, but I guess that just means there's an aftermarket opportunity there.
I'm sure by now you suspect this isn't true, but I can confirm it. I've been using it for several days (and losing sleep and showing up late to work because of it) and have done direct usage comparisons with the DFP. The G25 is head and shoulders a better wheel than the DFP.
For starters, it's a lot more precise. A Logitech guy on the RSC told us why, "the G25 is much more precise than DFP. DFP has three sets of gears between the optical encoder and the wheel. This means that the system must 'take up' the slack (backlash) in three places before the encoder starts to move. G25 has only one set of gears between the encoder disk and the wheel and uses a 'anti-backlash' gear to remove the space between those two gears. This means that when the wheel rotates the encoder rotates at exactly the same time."
The G25 is also running at 4 times the samping rate, "G25 is a full-speed USB device reporting at 500hz (as opposed to the DFP, which is low speed and reports at 125hz)."
However, the biggest difference to me is the turn speed. There is much less internal resistance to turning, you can whip the wheel around super fast without that 'pushing it through molassus' feeling you got with the DFP. In fact, the wheel will turn itself (via FF) like 3x faster than the DFP ever did, so letting the car automatically countersteer happens realistically fast with this wheel. It's feels much more like driving a real car.
After spending a day or two doing autocross with the G25, I hooked up the DFP (trying to isolate an issue on my computer) and was shocked. A slalom that I had been doing over and over again with the G25 was suddenly was difficult... and noisy... with the DFP motors whining in protest as I tried to whip it around the same way I did the G25.
Piddy summed it up a few days ago on RSC, "Compared to the DFP, the best part of the G25 is the FF and precision of the wheel. I can make and feel smaller adjustments to the steering. When larger corrections are required, there is far less internal resistance so throwing the wheel from side to side is easier and more rewarding."
Also, after using the G25, the DFP's pedals feel very spongy and imprecise. I loved my DFP, but using the G25 has proved very eye opening. I'm aware of flaws in the DFP now that I didn't see before.
Anything more current? That's 5 years old, and refused to run on my PC. One of the video options was for Glide. *lol*
You've got that exactly backwards. You are dictating the experience for other player if you use driving aids. If players want the option to race against other players that are doing it the hard way, without having to compete with people that turn all the aids on (and are essentially paying a different, easier version of the game), they should have that option. If you don't want an even playing field, you can pick another server. Nobody is dictating which server you race on.
This is an extremely common feature in competitive games (not just racing games).
It is a bit hardcore, and I'm sure very few servers would do it, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be an option available to the server operator.
The fact is, turning off some of those driving aids will slow you down. For instance, manually shifting with a clutch is likely to slow most players down. However, some players may prefer to do that, even thought it's slower, because they want 100% simulation. Those players might prefer to race against other players who are also going 100% simulation so they can have a level playing field. Those players might choose to create servers where such rules are enforced, and you are would be completely free to not click on those servers. You get want you want, they get what they want, everybody's happy.
Last edited by Eric Tetz, .
LFS and the G25 were practically made for each other. 900 degree turning, paddle shifters, sequential shifter, 6-speed gated shifter, and a clutch gives you complete coverage of the vehicle types in LFS.
I got it on Saturday and it rocks. I've been staying up late playing LFS ever since. I'm addicted to autocross. The smoothness of the wheel and the FF combined with a better feeling throttle and a clutch pedal make it a blast.
I got it on Saturday and it rocks. I've been staying up late playing LFS ever since. I'm addicted to autocross. The smoothness of the wheel and the FF combined with a better feeling throttle and a clutch pedal make it a blast.
Off-road vehicles
I just got a Logitech G25, and combined with LFS, it's an amazing simulation platform. The problem is, as much as I love road racing, I want to go off-road, too! I want to hit jumps and catch air! Hell, I'd like to go pounding about in a monster truck. But I want to do so in a real simulator, and LFS has me spoiled rotten; nothing less will do.
The LFS engine is so flexible, and covers such a wide range of 4-wheeled motorsports, why not true off-road vehicles and some real terrain to chew up? If nothing else, it would be a great test of the physics engine.
I suppose (hope) we'll be able to create things like that for ourselves, when the game is finally finished, but it sure would be nice to get something in the mean time.
Rock on, guys. LFS rules.
The LFS engine is so flexible, and covers such a wide range of 4-wheeled motorsports, why not true off-road vehicles and some real terrain to chew up? If nothing else, it would be a great test of the physics engine.
I suppose (hope) we'll be able to create things like that for ourselves, when the game is finally finished, but it sure would be nice to get something in the mean time.
Rock on, guys. LFS rules.
FGED GREDG RDFGDR GSFDG